What Do You Think?
I need your help.
I am in the process of writing some of my thoughts regarding “Christian” industry. Music, books, T-shirts. This post was born out of some quick thoughts in the comments section of my last post.
I am curious of where you stand on this. I would like to know who I am writing this post for.
So, what do you think of paying for “Christian” entertainment. To take it a step further. Should there even be a “Christian” and a “Secular” term placed on media and entertainment? Does the term “Christian” bother you when it is attached to commerce?
The part of Christian commerce that bothers me is the tired, old, and trite bumper stickers and t-shirts that seem to only isolate Christians as an odd-ball, disconnected element of society. I’ve never met some one who came to know Christ because of a “God is my Co-Pilot” license plate on the front of a car.
I’m realizing how important it is to get in and live life with people. That is being authentic. When we earn people’s trust and respect, we then earn an opportunity to tell them about our Savior. I used to write people off who didn’t believe like I do… judge them. God has shown me SO much grace in all of my failures; who am I to not extend that kind of grace to others?
I’m sure that a Christian concert will always be billed as such… people know who is who… and people will always have their preconceived notions on what Christian churches, events, or bookstores have inside. It’s up to us to take Christ out of these places and “live him” for people to see.
Wow! Look at me getting all SOAP BOXed!
-Peace
Steve Murphy’s last blog post…Leadership without vision?
here’s my little rant & maybe this doesn’t even apply, but i’m gonna say it anyway…
i really get tired of “christian” things (entertainment & whatnot) being done in a non professional manner. so, when i hear of “christian” entertainment, i automatically think of really bad work. no i give serious props to those organizations & churches who won’t settle for anything less than the very best that God has given them talent in. i do however get a little scared when i hear of “christian” entertainment because of the shoddy work that is sometimes put into those things.
ok, sorry brent, that’s the end of my rant. again, not sure if it helped or if it shed light or if it was edifying, but that’s just how i feel sometimes!
mark stegall’s last blog post…giveaway day: HINT!!
off the top of my head: which isn’t always the best place…
I get sick of all the commercializing of Christian stuff. I feel the name of Christ gets dragged through the proverbial money pit that way.
However, when it comes to artists trying to make a living, it’s a fine line. Obviously I’m coming from the perspective that God has gifted me with several ways I could potentially make money under the “theme” of Christian service, and to do so I would still need some way to provide for my family. It’s hard for a lot of them to work even part time and participate in a music ministry or what have you.
I think in that case, it should be treated like they are missionaries. And as such, much of Christian entertainment would have to change. Because let’s be honest, some of them seem to me no different than their mainstream counterparts.
And that’s just what’s at the top of my head. I won’t scare you with what’s deeper that that in there…
carrie-the gremlin wrangler’s last blog post…Letters From Your Friendly Cashier: Vol 2 Revisited
Jesus Take the Wheel (So I Can Key My Ex’s Car)
I am bothered by it. But it is just a symptom of a Christian community that might care more about itself then those outside.
Rather than preparing our young people to go and make an impact on the culture, we try to replicate a culture in the confines of a Christian Ghetto.
I will say that I am encouraged as Gen X takes over and is not interested in bunkering down and lobbing bombs at culture from the comfort of our pews.
@Mark – I agree that the quality of Christian entertainment sucks. Maybe it’s because the people that control the money are trying to be safe.
vince’s last blog post…The Death of Youth Ministry | Introduction
I tend to think “sacred/secular” divides are false dichotomies.
Billy Chia’s last blog post…Top 5 Pastor Blogs
How much were those tickets??? HA!
I’ve discovered that you don’t know what you have until it’s gone. Ten days at home reminded me that if I were back in Quebec I would probably pay that much to go to a Christian concert, only because Christian concerts are rare like rain in Southern Oregon in July. It almost never happens and if it does you better take advantage of it. There is no Christian radio, or TV. We do have a Christian bookstore. Most people order off the net because there is more selection and it is easier to get a hold of English version of things quicker. We have language laws that slows down the availability of English materials.
Lord, knows if you saw someone wearing a Christian t-shirt then you have found someone who is in a minority.
Of course I wouldn’t go pay for that now because I have a family and $30 can fill my gas tank. But if I could convince someone who did not know Jesus that Christians can have a good time and not all music of that sort sounds mournful, I would go to the concert.
I guess it depends on what you grew up with…
Cheryl’s last blog post…More Sights and Sounds of Carifiesta 2008
Hoo, boy. This is a topic fraught with peril regarding how we as followers of Christ view the “world”. I personally don’t mind the “Christian industry”, but I know that it does turn some folks off who might otherwise be open to the message of Christ’s salvation.
I’m far more concerned by musicians and other media folks who don’t want to be labeled as “Christian” or go out of their way to soften their message by not mentioning God, Jesus, etc. in their songs. I understand the argument about “Christian” music being inferior, but I think sometimes it’s because those artists are afraid that proclaiming the name of Jesus will hurt their fan base.
Good topic for discussion though.
Only in America is there this wide divide between the sacred and the secular. I like the title of Rob Bell’s tour, it says it all to me: “Everything Is Spiritual”. Delirious has been on the UK charts for years mixed in with what we would call “secular” artists.
Truth is (sorry so harsh, I know it’s coming) that if many artists/bands tried to make it on America’s “secular” charts, they just wouldn’t cut it. I’m happy when I see Christians making music – not just “Christian” music. (Can music be Christian? Is it going to heaven?!) Great example: Natasha Bedingfield. A Christian woman who is hitting it big on the “secular” charts.
Awesome thoughts! Keep them coming…so that Buddy can continue to troll
I am hearing some of the same issues for me as well as some great thoughts to address.
It really does not bother me when buying something labeled “Christian”. Being we are a single income family of four, it really comes down to the almighty buck.
bryan’s last blog post…Dog Care Day…After
required reading on this topic: Fearless Faith by John Fischer.
required listening: “T-Shirts (what we should be know for)” by Derek Webb:
They’ll know us by the t-shirts that we wear
They’ll know us by the way we point and stare
At anyone whose sin looks worse than ours
Who cannot hide the scars of this curse that we all bare
They’ll know us by our picket lines and signs
They’ll know us by the pride we hide behind
Like anyone on earth is living right
And isn’t that why Jesus died
Not to make us think were right
Chorus
When love, love, love
Is what we should be known for
Love, love, love
Its the how and it’s the why
We live and breathe and we die
They’ll know us by reasons we divide
And how we can’t seem to unify
Because weve gotta sing songs a certain style
Or well walk right down that aisle
And just leave em all behind
They’ll know us by the billboards that we make
Just turning Gods words to cheap clichs
Says what part of murder don’t you understand?
But we hate our fellow man
And point a finger at his grave
Chorus
They’ll know us by the t-shirts that we wear
They’ll know us by the way we point and stare
Telling em their sins are worse than ours
Thinking we can hide our scars
Beneath these t-shirts that we wear
badguy’s last blog post…What year is this? oh yeah, 2008…
I like to think of music as “God glorifying” or “not”. Just because something doesn’t directly reflect on God doesn’t make it bad.
Ben’s last blog post…Grace Microcast Notes – 7/30/08
I personally don’t look for a Christian label when purchasing anything. I do take into consideration whether it will tear me down or build me up, and I take into consideration the person who is sending the message. But I do not search out Christian items.
Malachi’s last blog post…Welcome to the Twitterati
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Indian Lake Papa’s last blog post…I want his eyes and respect!
let’s say we “don’t” pay them to entertain us. does that mean we don’t have to “pay” our preachers/teachers/those who are setting aside their lives to serve us spiritually?
yes, these Christian artists are entertaining us, but one could make the case that they are also ministering to us, if only to offer alternative forms of “fun” that aren’t morally questionable. some bands share testimonies, have moments of worship songs, etc… that sounds a little like ministry as well.
i think the better question is HOW MUCH we should pay them. i struggle with Christian entertainers that live in the lap of luxury just as much as i struggle with Christian ministers that live in the lap of luxury.
mandythompson’s last blog post…more on community
Just a thought…
I think there’s way too much energy being expended on fighting the Christian music industry. It’s a division that’s being fueled by a lot of people who say “Christians shouldn’t be so divided.”
I think satan would really like to discourage artists who are ministering to Christians.
Okay, that’s two thoughts.
Bernard Shuford’s last blog post…More Packers nonsense…
Even beyond this I find it funny that we now have a worship artist or Christian artist difference now too. You are either one or the other. Kind of weird. I have no problem paying for Christian entertainment. It is up to the artist and record company or whatever to be held accountable to God. It isn’t my job to judge from the sidelines.
Tyler’s last blog post…When the Tears Fall
I really hate the word “secular”. I can see using the word “mainstream” meaning that’s where the product is being marketed, but I don’t see much of a point between separating things from “Christian” and “secular”.
Brody’s last blog post…Positive Post Tuesday
I’m glad you posted this. I personally don’t have a beef with going to spend money christian entertainment. Some friends of mine are in a Christian band on Sparrow records…they don’t make much money…it’s not like they are reveling in their wealth as Africa starves.
But I do think the designation Christian/Secular is retarded. It just reinforces an us vs. them mentality that doesn’t find the slightest bit of credence in Rom. 12.2.
John Calvin–”All truth is God’s truth.” I suppose then any “secular” artist with a moral message has been mislabeled.
Oh yeah…why is there such a dichotomy in music industry but not the film industry? That is, it’s cool to go see a movie with gratuitous sex and violence but uncouth to listen to anything “secular” beyond U2.
nate’s last blog post…The Death Penalty–Iran, China, and the US
I recently heard some discussion on this especially if the Christian band is a worship band…and worship isn’t a performance right? So why would you pay for that?
I don’t mind it myself! I just don’t like that everything labeled “Christian” is sub-par to “mainstream or secular”. We need better marketing, music, and t-shirts.
Lifehouse is a great example of a band that didn’t need to label themselves at all. Secular, Christian, whatever…they just make great music that glorifies God. Paramore too.
JudiFree.com’s last blog post…Hey, it’s OK…
We have two markets, Christian and secular. Well, amend that… we have like a gazillion markets. Acts don’t typically cross-over markets; they cater to their market. Labels enforce that boundary. Christian markets don’t want to hear street talk. Secular markets don’t want to hear about God or sin or faith. This separation and distinction is enforce in both markets. It was not always this way.
When I go to open mics and a poet is about to share a poem containing God/Jesus/Bible/Sin/whatever they begin with a disclaimer like, “this poem is about my personal faith blah, blah, blah.” They basically apologize to those there who don’t want Christ or maybe they’re apologizing for the poem’s quality… I don’t know. Either way, I think the disclaimer/apology/excuse things is the poet acknowledging the separation and trying not to offend. I think its crap. The poet who just shouted F America didn’t brace the audience. I slam it. If what I slam offends, oh well.
Kind of rambled B… If you can glean anything from this, hey more power to you.
Ric’s last blog post…What are my options here?
Come on Brent we all know that Follower of Christ Music doesn’t have the same ring. Or Believer Music. Or Disciple Music.
My friend and Co-author Brian wrote
Ironically, the word(Christian) was ALWAYS intended to be a noun and was NEVER intended to be an adjective. Yet we have Christian bookstores, Christian music, Christian T-shirts, Christian radio stations, etc, etc, etc… Moral relativism has defined the word to be whatever you want it to mean for you.
So yeah I have a problem with it the branding of the word Christian. Do I have a problem paying for religious or faith based music? No, I have to believe in my heart of hearts these artists hearts are in the right place. Plus they are using the talent God gave them, to make a living. I just hope they remember to whom much is given much is expected.
You can read Brian’s complete post here. http://tinyurl.com/64lz63
ckroboth’s last blog post…A wedding Christ Provided…Blogged Bible Study.
Dang, you guys are really giving me some great talking points and stuff to chew on. We may need to go with a series on this discussion!
I don’t have a lot to say about this (intelligently anyway
) and I haven’t read through the comments…sorry. 
But the topic reminds me of something a friend told me a long time ago…
She said her grandma (like, 90’s at the time) always wondered why people paid for Christian concerts and got autographs from Christian artists. “Isn’t that idolatry?” she said.
I don’t know, but that’s what this made me think of.
Over and out.
Brandy’s last blog post…FAT is fabulous!!
I once picked a plumber out of the Christian ‘yellow pages’ – the “Shepherd’s Guide” – thought it made sense. All the ‘authentic’ Christians had a little sheep logo down in the corner of their ads. So I made sure to call one of them. Anyway, I got ripped off.
Meanwhile, I had chosen a mortgage company out of the same book, back during the refinancing craze. He didn’t have a little sheep on his ad – I didn’t know about the sheep when I first called him. And wouldn’t you know it – he was Jewish, for cryin’ out loud. He was great; honest and hard working. Go figure.
Christian’s last blog post…Ten Ways Evangelicals can Save on Energy
“Does the term ‘christian’ bother you when it is attached to commerce?”
Yes, it does. Immensely. Because it implies that unless something is “christian” then we cannot see God in the music or the entertainment. I remember Bono of U2 had said once of blues is “backsliders” music, which, if you think about it, is really a longing for God. For instance, if you listen to Robert Cray’s “Right Next Door (Because Of Me)” then you might realize that it is a song filled with regret over giving in to temptation. And yet, to many, this would unfortunately be considered “secular,” which many would see as something to be avoided. I used to be that way. But now I try to find in God in everything, not just “christian” music or a beautiful summer day, but in the longings of people that I can see opening before HIm. A lot of people are like sheep without a Shepherd, just like we were once. And I think we would do well to remember that if we are to fulfill The Great Commission.
TheNorEaster’s last blog post…The Light of the World
Christian: Never heard of yellow pages called “The Shepherd’s Guide.” And, based on what you just said, I’m pretty happy about that.
TheNorEaster’s last blog post…The Light of the World
I guess now’s a good time to add this to the mix:
http://www.bushfish.org/
badguy’s last blog post…What year is this? oh yeah, 2008…
I love God. I love my country. But that…”BushFish”….?
Uh uh. Nope.
TheNorEaster’s last blog post…The Light of the World
C, you picked a plumber. Haha. that made me laugh…I don’t know why
Bad, I figured some of that might come up.. can’t say it will part of my post though.
Brent, I have to inform you I just declared War on your wife. Nothing personal, and I will lower any big bombs I will let you know first for you are a gentleman sir, but I have to do what needs to be done. I am truly sorry it has come to this!
BA
5th Street’s last blog post…Blog Retreat Update!!
Hahaha!!!
This outta be fun
And yes, I am a gentlemen, she can go first…
Many thoughts:
I don’t mind at all purchasing “Christian” music, books, t-shirts, etc. I would much rather support an artist that is glorifying God (Jeremy Camp, Jeremy Riddle, Kutless) versus any other artist that is not(“secular,” “mainstream,” “Christian,” or otherwise).
As much as I agree it should be a “noun,” I guess in this regard it has to be an “adjective.” It would be like asking someone what kind of music they prefer: Country, Punk, Reggae, Christian.
T-shirts & bumper stickers are more or less the same: they speak of one’s attitude(s), opinion(s), etc. I took my kids to DQ not that long ago and there was a teenager (with a father-like figure) having ice cream, wearing a t-shirt that said “F*** You!” – unfortunately, the actual word was used. I would have MUCH rather seen (or even more so, my kids) a t-shirt that read: “Jesus loves you,” or “If you’re living like there is no God, you better be right,” or “My boss is a Jewish Carpenter.” I don’t think there is a t-shirt out there that has brought anyone to Christ, but I’m sure they have made a few people stop & think.
Now I need to go put my $4.99 “Jesus Fish” on my car.
I have no problem paying for “Christian” entertainment, I just don’t do it often because there’s not much “Christian” entertainment that is entertaining enough to warrant a fee.
Look, yes these folks are ministering to the people, but they have also worked and trained and practiced and bled to get good at their craft. They deserve to make money doing it. If they didn’t make money doing it then there’s no way they could be out there 200+ days per year evangelizing. God gave them the gift, they did the work. To God be the glory, to the worker go the hire.
I’ll admit, there are times I wish I could revert to some of my legalistic upbringing – at least with my kids. It would be so much easier if I could just separate everything into black and white, Christian and secular.
But I think God wants me to raise my children to be more discerning than simply accepting music, books or entertainment simply because they have been labeled as “Christian.”
Brad Ruggles’s last blog post…Photos by Daley Hake
There’s a lot of interesting thoughts being posted here. I thought it was interesting that Mandy thinks it’s okay to pay people to ‘minister’ to us, whether they are musicians or preachers. I question the whole concept of ministry v. profession (which isn’t really where you were taking this Brent, but another interesting topic.
“alternative forms of “fun” that aren’t morally questionable” – that’s another statement loaded with implications (I’m not trying to pick on you Mandy, but what you said stuck with me). I think the concept of alternative entertainment is a major reason why we have the christian subculture/consumerism in the first place. I’ve been to churches that offer “Royal Rangers” and “Missionettes” instead of boy and girl scouting. Then there’s all those private christian schools? Christian mentioned the “Shepherd’s Guide” – that’s been around the DC/MD/VA area for 20-30 years.
Nate mentioned Romans 12:2 where Paul tells us to no longer CONFORM to the pattern of the world. How is developing a “christian” alternative for just about everything the world has to offer not conforming to the world? Usually it’s just a cheap and inferior alternative – but the same.
Another passage has Jesus praying to the Father before he is arrested (John 17:15-19): “MY PRAYER is NOT that you take them OUT of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I HAVE SENT THEM INTO THE WORLD. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.”
This was Jesus talking to the Heavenly Father – you might imagine that Jesus was (and is) totally connected to the perfect will of the Father, so you would conclude that his prayers are not mere wishes. Jesus is speaking from a place of authority and fore-knowledge that WE (His followers) will BE IN THE WORLD – and that we will be SAFE.
Christian entertainment – isn’t that throwing believers to the lions?
We’re on a mission; we don’t need entertainment.
Christian subculture – the NT church grew despite the culture in which it found itself, but it was essentially counter-culture and underground; operating outside the bounds of the reigning society.
We are to live our lives among the lost and broken as witnesses for Jesus the Christ; a city on a hill, a light to the darkness, salt.
This is not an easy calling, nor one we should take lightly. We must be intentional in our interactions with others – be they believers or the lost, and we must be showing the way to Jesus, not a different CD or clothing aisle at WalMart.
badguy’s last blog post…What year is this? oh yeah, 2008…
Ok.. let me join in the mix here. I don’t mind spending money on Christian stuff but like someone said at the top about Christian stuff being “cheap” I really agree. I mean the majority of stuff out there is painfully cheesy. I try to watch some of the stuff with my daughter and just can’t. The same goes for concerts.. I don’t have a problem spending money to go see artist.. but I want to have a good time. I dont want to walk out of a concert and be like.. ehh.. i could have just stayed home and save the $25 for on the ticket. But groups like Mercy Me, TobyMac, Third Day have awesome shows. I think the Christian Market as a whole needs to look at Quality of what they are putting out instead of just putting sub standard stuff out there.
Adam’s last blog post…Start of Another Week…
Lotsa comments about “Christian” stuff being “cheap” and “low quality”.
Christians are the world’s biggest cheapskates, often in the name of “good stewardship”.
Is the general consensus that the “manufacturers” or “artists” should provide higher quality “stuff” for the same price, or are we willing to properly compensate them for stepping it up a notch? I’m hearing a lot of people saying that $25 is too much to pay to see Christian musicians. Are you all aware that top notch mainstream stuff like Blue Man Group sells their CHEAPEST tickets for something around EIGHTY bucks per seat? The front row goes for $1000?????? A buddy of mine just paid nearly $200 for TWO tickets to see Cheap Trick. Are “we” ready to pay that kind of money to see the “quality” of “Christian” music or “entertainment”?
The mainstream world has a lot more clientele. A lot bigger audience. Just read this thread – a lot of CHRISTIANS don’t even like Christian music. It’s a vicious cycle. We think the stuff should be better, but we really would rather spend our money on something else. Paradoxical, huh.
MT said:
Simple answer – YES
Certianly I agree with many of the feelings here regarding Christian Entertainment.
There is another side to it however. It’s really not fair to the artist. If someone wants to make a living or better yet wants to get a message out, why pigeon hole them into a micro-market? If they want maximum exposure either for their message or to make money (there’s nothing wrong with wanting to make money), the mainstream is where they need to market. If it’s good music people will buy it. Without Googling can anyone tell me the lyrics to Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit”??? I can’t, but the song is great, in fact it’s a pivotal song in music history. My point… (do I have one)… just make good music and make it available to everyone…. whoever likes it will buy it.
Test… I think feedburner and WP2.6 upgrade was messing up my ‘luv’.
let’s see…
I feel stupid and contagious. here we are now entertain us. – best I can do this early in the a.m…
badguy’s last blog post…What year is this? oh yeah, 2008…
Hello Hello Hello Hello
Hello Hello Hello Hello
Something about an albino, a mosquito, a mulatto, and something else I can’t remember.
Bernard Shuford’s last blog post…OHP July 30, 2008 – Week Two, Day One
Sure chorus… Verse anyone??
I am loving this discussion. It strays from my original thoughts a bit, but still needs it’s space. I have creatyed a new post for this discussion.
http://brentinworship.com/blog/2008/07/pastors-should-not-be-paidor-should-they/
I’ll pay a lot of money for good Christian entertainment. In 2005 I spent about $500 on U2 tickets. Now that’s church!
i don’t have time to catch up on all these comments (BLAST!), but here are my two cents:
i grew up in a household that had a HUGE dividing line between christian and secular. we weren’t allowed to listen to “secular music”; we never had cable; pg-13 movies were STRICTLY off limits (as, of course, were r-rated ones).
as an adult, i’ve wrestled through some of these things to form my own opinions. i think everything is sacred, and i can find God anywhere i look for Him.
my stomach also turns at the thought of the christian marketing behind things like WWJD and the prayer of Jabez. i mean, really – we slap those phrases on anything (coasters, candles, toilet paper!) and sell them in christian bookstores and suddenly we’ve got holy toiletries?!?! it bothers me, as does all cheesy marketing, but unfortunately the MAJORITY of “christian” stuff out there today leans towards the cheesy/poorly done/lacking in excellence side.
that was a little disjointed and rambly. sorry.
alece’s last blog post…pack it up
I hate the segregation that happens between Christian/secular..there is some I hate on both sides,and some I love on both sides..
It really puts a wall up between believers and nonbelievers, and how am I supposed to reach anyone if this dang wall is in between? I say tear it down..I love so many types of music… should I pay for them? YES I believe it is how God is providing for them as the travel perform, spread HIS word..man I have spent 2 sometimes 3 times the amount to see secular bands…and it was worth it to me..
darla’s last blog post…Blogging Bible Study-John 2
So it sounds like there is a lot of consensus about Christian vs Secular terminology.