Church and Culture…Are They Opposed?
First of all, for clarity. When I say church in this post, I am speaking to the people.
Culture has 2 aspects to it. The things we are and the things we do. For instance, here are two definitions for the word culture:
1) The quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
2) The behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group:
Last night tam and I went out for the evening to enjoy a nice time of food, drinks and music. I have had some amazing opportunities to get to know musicians from around the valley because of my involvement with engineering. We went to hang out and listen to a couple of the guys I’ve met through the fair. They are an incredible blues band and it was amazing to listen to them. My date for the evening was pretty incredible too 
As I was sitting there last night, I was listening and watching intently. The relationships between these band members was amazing. The expertise and ability was incredible. Some of these guys have been playing Blues in places like Chicago and New Orleans for as much as 30-40 years. They are seasoned, in all aspects of the word. But, that is what made the music and the atmosphere so phenomenal. These guys blew me away.
Growing up in the Christian world, I hardly ever experienced these kind of evenings. This kind of music. these kinds of people. I started thinking about how bummed I was that I had not met people like this and appreciated culture like this before.
I kept thinking about how we as the church often seclude ourselves from people and places like this. Why? Are we afraid? Are we protecting ourselves from something? Why do Christians exclude themselves from people, no matter what the background?
Culture is not scary to me. Culture is incredible. Culture can be full of hope and culture can be full of hate, but it doesn’t bother me either way. Getting to understand it and even experience it allows me to see it and either appreciate it or steer clear of it. The church is too afraid of culture. The reality is that church is a culture of it’s own. In fact, to experience other people and cultures is to allow us to understand how different we are to them. It allows us to see how secluded and separate we can appear. It can show us who people are and how beautiful God’s creation is. That’s not scary. That should be experienced and appreciated. The churches culture should be seen by them. That doesn’t happen inside the building. That happens when we live and breathe in front of and with people.
What scares you about culture? What is one way to allow your “neighbor” to see you today? we can’t have an effect, unless we are seen and known.
I’m slowly learning that the world is a lot bigger place than I ever imagined and to embrace that as I live out my life. We all need more nights like you described above.
One of the most difficult principles to learn and act on is the idea that believers can find sustenance and joy in cultural items that do not necessarily market themselves as “Christian.” This holds true in literature, and as you experienced, music.
Odgie’s last blog post…God loves wrestling
I read this Henri Nouwen devotional this AM and think it relates strongly to what you’ve communicated here:
Bridging the Gap Between People
To become neighbours is to bridge the gap between people. As long as there is distance between us and we cannot look in each other’s eyes, all sorts of false ideas and images arise. We give them names, make jokes about them, cover them with our prejudices, and avoid direct contact. We think of them as enemies. We forget that they love as we love, care for their children as we care for ours, become sick and die as we do. We forget that they are our brothers and sisters and treat them as objects that can be destroyed at will.
Only when we have the courage to cross the street and look in one another’s eyes can we see there that we are children of the same God and members of the same human family.”
I think this can apply inside or outside the church (though some might rephrase “children” to “creations” in the last sentence to apply to non-believers.
For me, I just want to rightly represent the One I belong to wherever (and alongside whomever)He places me. Right now, my life is centered around ministry to my parents, with a little left over for ministry that directly represents Him in various venues (inside and outside the church walls).
Wherever I am though, the most important thing, I believe, is not “what people think of me, but what people think of HIM because of me.” So, “whether I eat or drink or do whatever” my aim is that it all be for His glory (1 Cor. 10:31). Hopefully the difference (between this motivation and ‘the world’s’) will be noticeable even without direct verbal ‘witness’.
D-
CJ, agreed.
Odgie, I have always wondered why the church so often refuses or bans art (of whatever kind). I understand the background or purpose f some art, but art and music in itself is not evil. I really believe God created us and all of it and it is either being used to glorify God or self.
D, yes!
I completely agree and think that this can be done in and outside as well.
Nothing scares me about culture. I’ve had breakfast with homeless people, lunch with millionaires, dinner with recovering drug addicts, and dessert with bikers. And I’ve had some great conversations just about every time.
Why is the church so secluded from culture? POWER.
Why are we taught to invite people to church instead of making friends and spending time at their place and teaching by example–or going out as “a sheep among the wolves”? FEAR OF LOSING THAT POWER.
Not a pleasant truth. But A truth nonetheless. Most people just don’t see it.
“Christianity stands or falls with its revolutionary protest against violence, arbitrariness, and pride of power and with its plea for the weak. Christians are doing too little to make these points clear rather than too much. Christendom adjusts itself far too easily to the worship of power. Christians should give more offense, shock the world far more, than they are doing now. Christians should take a stronger stand in favor of the weak rather than considering the first possible right of the strong.” ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer, “Sermon on 2 Corinthians 12:9″ 1934
TheNorEaster’s last blog post…It’s Christmas (Baby, Please Come Home)
Noreaster. Isn’t it true! Power…Pride…
We can see ourselves as something “more special” than others. God sees us all as His creation. I cant believe that I am any better or more special. I need to share what God has proven to me with those that have not listened yet.
Most often the “unpleasant truth” is the one we most need to hear!
Nor – amen and amen and amen!!!
tam’s last blog post…So christians DO enjoy sex!
I think maybe we should clarify culture more. When you talk about blues music during a night on the town, I’m not scared at all of that. However, we talk about culture being where some people might go to after the show (another late night bar, strip clubs, etc) that scares me. God calls us to be in the world but not of it. This is a line that I know is impossible to follow perfectly. At the same time though, I know that I find it so hard to love culture but also to hate some of culture enough to have a passion to save it for Christ. Does that make any sense?
Tyler’s last blog post…Lunch Time
Tyler I completely agree. My issue is when we consider ourselves “better than”. Like we are more special because of our relationship with God. it;s a pride thing for me that Noreaster hit on nicely. We have to understand that things either glorify God (like D said) or glorify self. We have to draw the line on things that glorify self. The Spirit will lead in those situations and create our boundaries, only if we let Him.
I am finding for myself(how I respond), that I have to extend myself to them or I am apt to “shun” them. I am learning everyday to allow God to show me my boundaries, so that I can enjoy and appreciate and yet uphold His standard for my life. It’s easy for me to hate something, so I tend to let it soak in and allow Him to direct me through it.
Great thoughts, and all stuff I had thought about when I read Brent’s post.
I will add. “No one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket.”
Some times the four walls of our church become our basket. We hoard the light for our selves, and we don’t allow others to see what Christ has done for us, and bask in the light of His Glory.
Am I scared of Culture? Yes and No… Yes, because I feel unworthy sometimes to be God’s voice in the darkness when He needs me to be. No, because I have the light of Christ to guide me.
Love conquers all, and to just get over ourselves and love is all God wants. Just pour it out, just as Jesus’ love was poured out with his blood. Jesus broke it down to something a simple as a drink of water for the least. A DRINK OF WATER, but we make it so hard. If Christ’s Church could just figure out the “Drink of Water” the world and it’s culture would be a better place.
ckroboth’s last blog post…God is not a vending machine,
As someone who became Christian later in life, I have lived in both cultures. I looked down on Christians while outside the church. I have looked down on nonbelievers from within the church. I think the distance between ’set apart’ and ’set above’ is one gentle, malicious nudge.
Ric’s last blog post…Knight of My Rescue, iii
I completely agree.. I remember I was going to a Christian college for a year. Couldnt go back the following year for financial reasons. And I remember going back to school for a visit and one of the guys honestly asked me if I was still saved.. becasue i wasn’t at Bible school and was just living on my own. At that moment I realized a lot of Christians live in this bubble.. and are scared to step outside of it. I have been learning that I am no better than a lot of these people outside of the church. In fact I am sometimes worse. I sin.. try to cover it up. and a pretend that everything is fine. But how am I ever going to witness to my neighbors if I “appear” to be perfect. I think experiencing new cultures and life outside the church is vital.. I mean that is what Jesus did. He didnt just preach to the people in the temples.
What a great post.. really gets me thinking.
Adam’s last blog post…Love Grass?!?
I just took my son to a Rush concert this past Saturday. Grabbed a beer at the concession stand kicked back under the stars and watched Geddy, Alex and Neil play their butts off for 3 hours, hanging with my boy. It was awesome. Whether the guys in Rush recognize it or not, Bo and I knew that their talent came from God (as did the hops) and we could just enjoy that for what it was.
Question: When a peacock shows it’s plumage does it do so for the glory of God or just to get in some hens pants? Doesn’t matter does it? Either way it’s a glorious display of God’s creativity.
As far as being scared… what is there to be scared about? I know who is by my side, I know what good choices are and bad. Could I possible go to a strip bar and honor my wife? Of course not so that’s off the list. It’s really not that hard… and life is so much fuller being free from the walls that bind…
BuddyO’s last blog post…An Unfortunate Choice of Words
This is a challenging topic but one we shouldn’t shy away from as the church. I think we need to be seen where people are. We need to follow Jesus and be at the “wells” of our day – the place of social interaction so we can shine our light from atop a hill rather than hiding it under a basket.
Great post man!!
Brad Ruggles’s last blog post…10 Blogging Terms You Should Know and Use
Brent: This honestly has been a long process for me. Partly because of how I was raised, mostly because I just didn’t get it and felt I needed to protect myself from ungodliness. Sad, I know, but I’m being honest here. This scripture began the change. “Romans 12:1-2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. “
This started some questions for me like, How does the command not to be conformed to this world relate to Paul’s statement in 1 Corinthians 9:22, “I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some”? How is becoming all things to all people not conforming to the world? Or how does the command not to conform to the world, relate to Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 10:32-33? “Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.” How does not being conformed to the world fit with not giving offense to the world? I can’t always do both. How does not being conformed to the world fit with pleasing everyone for the sake of salvation? I can’t always please people if I refuse to conform to some of their thoughts and ways.
I hear, Christians are in the world but not of the world. Jesus prays, “I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world” (John 17:15-16)
Or we say Christians should be separate from the world and yet participate in the world. 2 Corinthians 6:17 “Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing.”
How do we get balance? For me it is “be transformed by the renewal of your mind that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” I no longer have qualms about people or their state of existence. I praise God for it, it was a long time of seeking to get there….but we really enjoying being in the world…it’s an amazing place out there.
Debs’s last blog post…Can we just love?
I was immersed in “the culture” for years until I was saved at 23. I don’t think twice about going into a certain place or hanging out w/ certain people…they are all loved by God & if I can be an example of a Christian who is loving & accepting like Jesus was..then so be it. I have discovered that a large percentage of my unchurched friends have extremely poor views of the Christian community. How judgmental they are, unaccepting, unwilling…sadly, these are the some of the same Christians I encounter as well.
Mandy’s last blog post…Positive Post Tuesday
I love this post. Growing up I was taught not to mix with the “world” What a lonely sad place it is not to. How do we learn, how do we live and how do we grow if we don’t step out? I have had so many wonderfunl and rich experiences because I tested the boundaries and feel for all those that don’t and never will.
Elaine’s last blog post…Visit to see friends
Carl,
I feel this way often, but your right, He is there to guide.
Ric, the line can definitely be blurred at times.
Adam, you are right about the “bubble”. I was a part of a great conversation about the bubble last year and it really revealed to me how self focused we as a church can be. We need to ask ourselves the tough questions.
BuddyO, I completely agree! The idea that all gifts are given of God is something I hold on strong to. There have been times where people have said that music or art is evil. I have even heard people say that a gift someone has is from satan and not from God. Hogwash. God created us, God made us beautiful. Sin has corrupted and we either glorify Him or self.
Brad,
Well said!
Deb, great stuff. The balance can be hard, is we are self focused. but like you said. He renews out minds and He then tests and approves.
Mandy, I encounter them as well. Dare I say that I have been one myself. I’m learning. You are fortunate to know both sides, so you can see it as it is.
Elaine, it can be lonely and sad, especially when God has called us to be a light and to be salt. We can’t do that in separation.
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Indian Lake Papa’s last blog post…Pray for Brittany!
Culture doesn’t scare me…actually I love culture…love the Blues, love some jazz…when I did stay out of bars it was not because I didn’t like the people, I was trying to stay off drugs or not drink..even non-believers do that when they are trying to clean up the act…I think it is a misconception that Christians don’t have lives other than church services. At least for me…Life is a gift, its short, no guarantee when its over, and I think we should live it to its fullest.
darla’s last blog post…Christians rant? WHAT!
I’m sad! Papa video posted and I can’t watch it right now
*hmph*
Brent, this post makes me think of that church we went to with my friend here….remember the email I sent you?? Definately people afraid of culture. It is frustrating.
I think a lot of times when people are afraid of culture (like music, or a good drink for instance) it’s almost like an excuse to say “Look at me, I’m so much more righteous than you” when it’s not even about that at all. I guess they’re better than Jesus too b/c if I remember correctly, he was around a lot of culture himself.
I’m still kinda bent on that whole church experience. It has bothered me a lot to know that people think like that. *sigh*
Brandy’s last blog post…One of *those* days, and it’s only 11am
Bran- I wish I could go to church with you especially at the one you are talking about…i am sure we would leave laughing…and they would leave thinking
darla’s last blog post…Christians rant? WHAT!
I love culturey things. The good things. Art, music, dance. My problem is they usually cost money. And time. I think a lot of americans have traded culture for TV. Christians and non. I have been thinking lately how often christians throw the baby out with the bath water. Instead of enjoying the good and using discernment with the rest, we just avoid it all.
tawny’s last blog post…Confession…..
Papa, I think your thoughts are great. Culture does happen inside the church community as well as outside. Now, i don’t see you and Mama as ones that separate themselves from the world, I see you as lights. Whether you are surrounded by believers or not, you have a heart for all to know Him. That I see!
Darla, you are right. When we struggle with aspects of life and culture, we need to keep ourselves free of it. Not the people, but the lifestyles. This is most definitely appropriate.
Brandy, I was thinking of your experience after I wrote this. It is sad that some choose to completely board themselves up from God’s creation. They almost act as if, they are the only one God notices.
Tawny, agreed. And I think TV has taken so much control over people that it has become it’s own culture. And many times, a scary one.
i hate tv, maybe next 4th of July we could all blow up televisions at Debs?? sound good??
darla’s last blog post…Christians rant? WHAT!
Darla, just as long as Deb’s son makes the bombs
ya!!!! still laughing at the vid…you all are awesome…this was the best vacation ever! hahahaha I still smile thinking about it
darla’s last blog post…Christians rant? WHAT!
We need to be able to identify with what is going on around us in order for anyone to take us seriously.
Besides, Larry Norman said “There’s nothin’ wrong with playin’ these blues licks”
scott’s last blog post…The Gore(y) Details
“They almost act as if, they are the only one God notices.”
SERIOUSLY. That is what I was thinking 100% while there. “Oh no I’m wearing jeans, God doesn’t see me according to them.” Or, “I listen to Christian rock music, I must be invisible.”
She also saw my myspace pictures of our Christmas party, pictures of us drinking, and she wasn’t too impressed by that. I got the same look from her I used to get from my mom when I was a teenager. It was odd.
Darla, you would DIE laughing at this church I’m talking about, it was awful. I’ll email you about it later.
Brandy’s last blog post…One of *those* days, and it’s only 11am
It sounds like everyone here really enjoys people, of all types and persuasions. But I’ve met others who think that the best reason for socializing is to evangelize. But that really isn’t honest, is it? To meet people with a hidden agenda.
But….I’ve had more opportunities to have meaningful conversations about God with people I’ve met in bars than in many bible studies I’ve participated in. It’s interesting that, if and when the subject finally comes up, if you’ve had chance to share a beer or two with someone first, their eyes tend to not glaze over quite so quickly.
Christian’s last blog post…10 Answers to the Question: Is the Church Still Relevant?
I think we are scared to some extent. It’s a fear that if we participate in the world’s culture, we are somehow not Christian enough. But didn’t Jesus engage in the culture? Wasn’t he relevant to the people around him?
I think so. And I think we would be wise to be relevant to those around us as well.
carrie’s last blog post…Wordless Wednesday: Corn King
Funny – I spent the last 2.5 hrs on the phone talking to my wife about how fundamentally wrong and broken is the way we do church. Brent – I disagree with your supposition that we’re talking about the people; we’re really talking about the institution and social structure that most of us believing people claim as our fellowship.
Tyler – “in the world and not of the world” is not actually scripture (God didn’t speak it), although I agree with the concept. What did happen was that Jesus prayed that we would NOT be taken out of the world, but that we would be kept safe from the evil one while we are and continue to be IN the world (John 17). That’s Jesus talking to God and assuming that we are IN the world – so it’s not really a question that needs to be asked.
The Doctrine of separation that I’ve seen reflected in some folks’ posts (mostly about their upbringings from which they are trying to break free) is dead wrong. We must be in the world and among the world.
Our model is Jesus. He was God and was with God and He had whatever goes along with being the Master of the Universe. He gave that up and put on skin so he could reach us. That was a significant step down in terms of his comfort zone, don’t you think? We MUST do the same. There’s a line from a Derek Webb song that says, “we must become what we want to save.”
What most of us need to do is simply walk outside and look around, see someone, and then go and engage them in relationship. No formulas, no 4-step programs, just simply get to know them and care about them. Oh, that takes time btw. After time, and building trust, you’ll come to discover what the person’s needs are, and you’ll get an idea how to meet them. Then one day, in God’s perfect timing, a door will open, you’ll feel the call of the Holy Spirit to say something, do something, answer a question – who knows?
Pay attention. Look. Listen. Act. Engage. Be.
That’s the church in action.
badguy’s last blog post…Seeking God
Darla, B and families…this is an official invitation to continue our blowing up traditions next fourth. Darla dear, you can blow up whatever you want if you come back!!!! Er, stay away from the Jeep…
Debs’s last blog post…Can we just love?
Scott, I was definitely a fan of Norman
Brandy, I am sure Darla will enjoy your story
Christian, it was kind of fun Monday to hang out with Joe (the lead guitarist of the group). I’ve run sound for his band for 2 years now when at the fair and so we’ve become light friends. At the gig Monday, he would come over and talk to us and at one point bought me a drink for all y help at the fair last week. It was after he bought me the drink that he sat down and we began to talk about what I did. Turns out he is playing with a couple of Christian’s in another band(that we are going to go listen to on Friday). he has the utmost respect for these two Christian players. And in turn respects Tammy and I. Over a drink, we got to share our lives with him. We enjoyed all aspects of that.
Carrie, relevant is always such a weird word to me, but if we are to look at it as “relating”, Jesus most definitely sought to relate and reach out to others.
Bad, I wasn’t supposing as much as trying to define my use of the word. But, I agree with how you’ve used it and your assessment. The people have created this institution and unfortunately so many just go along with it and in doing so, they become a willing party to it. It is a sad process.
Yes…yes…yes! Like you said, “engage”. We have to engage culture.
Deb, I’ll help protect the Jeep
here’s what I meant by relevant:
bearing upon or connected with the matter in hand; pertinent: a relevant remark. (per dictionary.com)
synonyms include: appropriate, applicable, fitting, and suitable.
I think you knew what I meant, but that’s how I use relevant. Behaving toward people in a way that is applicable to where they are in the culture.
Carrie, I figured that was your thought there.
I think that being relevant like that allows us to listen and understand better.
Where relevant can blur the line is when it tries to conform. Jesus definitely didn’t do that. But I don’t think you were saying that…just adding more thoughts
Reading through all of this has been really interesting. I would have to say I agree w/ “badguy’s” thoughts…
But I’ll just go my own direction, here. I LOVE culture. I love people’s stories. I firmly believe that every human being has a story- who am I not to listen?? I love going to Irish pub and enjoying a beer over fish n chips…w/ friends talking about life. This is a culture norm, esp common to my heritage, that I enjoy b/c it’s gathering w/ people over a part of society and being able to build relationships.
The blues night out? Amazing…
Every person has talents and gifts. They may not say God in them, but that doesn’t mean they are not from God, nor does it mean that the music, art, etc is not beautiful, b/c it is. Jesus went to the people, ate, drank and shared w/ them.
Someone said earlier that the Church often misses out on that b/c of Power. I agree. One of the things I love about the Catholic church, for example, is that most of them are still in the middle of neigborhoods and they have a high value for serving the community around them. I don’t see as many Evangelical churches doing that…kinda breaks my heart. Non christian people aren’t scary. They just don’t have Jesus. But what a difference we can make by just being w/ them, hanging out w/ them, giving them ourselves, treating them like people.
ash’s last blog post…Brains are Beautiful
I think anyone would feel at least a little apprehensive the first time they experience a culture, or people from a culture, different from the one they live in. I was lucky enough to live close to NY City where if you walk three blocks you can experience three different cultures. I can remember the first time I took the subway line through Harlem, and found myself the only white person on the train. In another early trip to NYC I walked out of Grand Central Station and saw a guy in a dress getting his shoes shined. I think everyone should go through a similar experience because then we learn that people are the same everywhere. Whether they are black or white or a guy wearing a dress. We may talk different, dress different, but people are the same everywhere.
In America it is very hard to isolate ourselves from different cultures, except for the very rich, or some cults. In all the comments preceding comments I have read I don’t see anyone who is trying to isolate themselves from the rest of the humanity.
I think the greatest strength of America is that it is a melting pot. I would say in that regard the more we try to isolate ourselves the less American we are, at least in spirit.
Anyone who wants to “spread the word” has got to reach out beyond their own community. It’s also simply a lot more fun to discover new food, new music, new friends.
Great topic, great discussion Brent.
Ed’s last blog post…Summer Music
ash – I think it’s totally cool that you embrace culture and love it. There is SO much for us to learn by listening to each others stories. It doesn’t take long to discover that we’re all very much the same and have hurt, pain, and disappointment in common. There is joy in discovering how far someone else has progressed on their journey, or how we might help them along in some small way.
I think blogging is a way to have a cross-cultural experience, perhaps from the ’safety’ of our own homes – but what the hey.
Ed – you may be right that blogging will help the world come together. I pray that is true. So, I’m not surprised that the people who gravitate to Brent’s blog already have a heart to reach out to other people/cultures/unsaved/etc. but unfortunately there are groups within the Christian sub-culture that have built doctrine specifically around being separate, distinct, and effectively cut-off from the world.
How many of us have done “outreach” by inviting folks to come to church, maybe by passing out fliers, or hanging up door-knob-tracts, or leaving Bibles at the doorstep? How many of us seek out “family friendly” forms of entertainment in the media? How many of us have been taught to not listen to certain music, or watch certain films, or go to certain places, or associate with “those types of people”?
Fortunately, I think most of the folks blogging here have come to understand, or are starting to understand that being a Christian involves being intentional in relationship with other human beings.
We must be three things: relevant, relational, and real. Just remember the three “R”s and you’ll be walking in His steps.
badguy’s last blog post…Seeking God
Ash,
I believe this wholeheartedly. Thanks for your thoughts.
Ed,
Right on ed!
Bad, I love the 3 R’s!
Comment #29 took a moment to sink in. I thought she had said, “Oh no, I’m wearing jeans, but they don’t see them…”
Just thought I’d throw that in there…
But seriously…I’ve known a lot of Christians who have had struggles with religious legalism, which appeals to some people because the world at large is so chaotic. A sense of order, of control, oftentimes brings a sense of relief to people. It creates a false sense of meaning and purpose in a world seriously lacking.
This, of course, echos my previous comment somewhere up there. Because there are some pastors and a whole lot of leaders who manipulate our longing for order, for a sense of control when we feel our lives are spinning out of control. For how quickly have people fallen in line behind a bad leader?
The advantage that Brent has, now, as a grown man, is he can expose himself to blues players and bands and go out and have a good time because he has a solid foundation. When you’re young and stupid, you think all the dumb things people do in bars and clubs is the way your life is supposed to be at that age.
Nothing wrong with going out and having a few drinks with friends–and I DO mean A FEW, not “a few” for those who think they can “handle” getting “hammered” (believe me, I know how THAT story ends)–but Brent also has an advantage of going out with Tam, who is also a strong Christian, and that probably helps the both of them to stay focused on Who is really important. (Hint: It’s not Brent OR Tam.
)
What about the three “B”s???
Beer
Brats
Bowling
(I just made that up – feel free to substitute the third B…)
Nor, I really feel that that is what the church is supposed to be. “Equipping the saints”. We learn and pray together so that we can go out together and care for the world. Taking someone with you and accountability in all process of life is huge and great wisdom.
Bad, so the first 2 are non-negotiable
I think Deb’s comment/cautions in #15 were well followed up on in the last 2 paragraphs of Nor’s #41.
Accountability for that ‘renewed mind’ is crucial to both rightly represent Christ to the world and not ’stumble’ weaker Christians who might see us in that environment (especially for ‘up front’ people like you two).
I have a feeling Nor could attest (as well as many more) of Christians WITHOUT renewed minds doing extreme damage to the world’s perceptions of ‘Christians’. (I think non-believers can be even more aware of our ‘inconsistencies’ than fellow believers are at times.)
Nick’s brother fell away because of ‘believers’ who didn’t ‘walk the talk’ (not that he didn’t make his own wrong choices too) and 30+ years later still has no interest in ‘Christianity’ (even with many ‘positive’ examples within his immediate family).
As to your comment in #18, I agree that God is the giver of good gifts (James 1:17), but Satan sure can have his hand in diverting them to his purposes (to glorify evil or self). Do we not think Satan is ‘gifted’, and who do we think his gifts originated from (Ezek. 28:11-17)?
It is a delicate balance, and I think Papa’s video comment about getting ‘filled up’ with more of Him IN ORDER TO go out is a needed word for maintaining our ‘balance’ and not tripping others up also.
It all has to be directed by Him and empowered by His Spirit renewing our minds to communicate His words and actions, motivated by His love for believers and non-believers alike.
D-
D, I completely agree. I think discussion has headed us to the reality of accountability and boundary.
well…maybe just the first is non-negotiable. There’s a new restaurant fixing to open near where I work in Mass. It’s called the British Beer Company. Yummy.
badguy’s last blog post…Seeking God
Okay, so where and when is the ’show’ tonight =}?
D-
D, we are going to Roscoe’s BBQ in Phoenix. Unfortunately I am working at the church for a conference tonight till 9, so we are going to miss dinner. Their BBQ is excellent! But, we will be heading out after the conference to enjoy at least a couple hours of music
We’re going to be at the ‘Mannatec’ thing at church tonight. Is that what you’re doing? If so, what time does it start – we forgot.
I become a pumpkin after 10 PM though (especially getting up at 5 AM and no nap today) ={.
See ya?
D-
D, it’s at 7, doors open at 6:30. Yes I’ll be there tonight running sound.